good evening folks Kent hoping here in the crew at dinosaur Adventureland in Lennox Alabama we believe the Bible is literally true and scientifically accurate the God made the world in six days just like he said he did and everything was made in six days so dinosaurs lived with man they did not live millions of years ago that's why we have dinosaur Adventureland I have with me tonight Gary damar from Georgia Presbyterian who takes a slightly different position on end times and we're gonna discuss what on earth is about to happen for heaven's sake tonight my book I wrote on the topic in my chart you said you disagree I've never had anybody disagree with me on anything brother this is brand-new you disagree on a few thing get your hand out woman okay so we're gonna I'm gonna discussion slash debate whatever you want to call it he asked if I would go first and present my position and then he will present his position equal time then just have a discussion back and forth over a particular topics is that the goal brother Gary yes about we'll start with the rapture first defense of the rapture okay sounds good well I'll start off there I think we could all agree the world is in a royal mess okay there are wars and rumors of wars and famines and pestilence and violence and and it's getting worse I think most folks would agree we've got problems on planet earth everyone is expecting their Messiah somebody to come save the world okay who's gonna come straighten out this mess the Jews have been weeping and wailing at their Wailing Wall hoping the Messiah would come soon to save them and straighten out the mess the Muslims teach their people that someday the Mahdi the 12th Imam will come and save the planet the 12th Imam the coming of the Mahdi there are many good books on this topic if you want to read about that they teach their people that the 12th Imam is gonna come and fix everything and force everybody force everybody to submit to Allah or kill them okay the 12th Imam Joel Rosenberg did a great book on that one if you want to read about that the 12th Imam so they're all there waiting though for hoping this guy will come and fix the world's mess is LOM will dominate the world by force or sword okay now the Hindus are teaching their people some day the Krishna is going to come and fix the world problems there'll be peace on earth goodwill toward men etc the Buddhists are sitting around contemplating the hair on their navel while they wait for the 5th Buddha to come fix everything yeah everybody's gonna be the fifth Buddha we'll fix it yeah maybe he's gonna come and straighten out the world mess now the Theophilus Theosophists they're busy waiting for their Lord me atre to come they think he's going to fix the planet and all these groups are teaching somebody's coming to straighten out the mess I think it's normal to hope and pray that some leader would come along and fix this mess they're waiting for Lord my atre to come straighten things up now the Satanists they're actually worship Lucifer and they think Lord Lucifer is going to come fix the world's problems and put it all back like it ought to be the Chinese Communists are waiting for their supreme leader to come on the scene and fix everything the North Korean communists have their guy with the funny haircut who think he's gonna fix everything okay the supreme leader the Russian communists are waiting for a supreme leader the Christians are waiting for the Messiah Jesus Christ to come back what's going on well in John chapter 14 jesus told his disciples in my father's house are many mansions if it were not so I would have told you I go to prepare a place for you pretty clear jesus said I'm gonna leave and prepare a place and come back and get you and if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and receive you unto myself I don't think it could be more clear the Bible clearly teaches Jesus is going to come back to the earth now when and what are the events surrounding that that's what we're gonna be talking about today in the book of Acts chapter 1 after Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead he met and worked for round for 40 days he met with his disciples on top of the Mount and he said as and he was ascended up to heaven and as well they look steadfastly toward heaven as he went up behold two men stood by them in white apparel which also said Ye men of Galilee why stand ye gazing up into heaven this same Jesus which has taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven I think that's pretty clear guys you watched him go up in a cloud he's coming back in a cloud that's the obvious teaching of this verse so we're waiting for the Messiah the Lord Jesus Christ to come now there are plenty of scriptures that are sometimes difficult to understand but in you really if you're going to start the understanding what the future is I think you need to start understanding how the world was made and the whole thing in my sin my book what a nurse about to happen which you can get from our website dr. dine or calm or my charts behind me over here the big ones are 25 bucks the little ones are 10 bucks if you want to get one of those that's what I spent five years while I was in prison unjustly working on this diligently reading how many hundred books on this topic from all kinds of different perspectives I said I just want to know the truth I had been taught as an independent temperamental fundamental right-wing radical chicken eating Baptist that the Lord comes back any minute you know there's all kinds of songs in our song books it could happen in a moment in a twinkling of an eye soon and very soon we're going to see the king and I was excited thinking boy I might not wake up in the morning I might be raptured and for 40 years I believed that and taught it and I'm sorry it's not true we're gonna be here for the tribulation time so you really got to start understanding the future by looking at the past the Bible teaches God made everything about 6,000 years ago this is the bottom timeline on that chart behind me here about 4,400 years ago there was a flood destroyed the world before the flood the people live to be 900 that's the time of the great dinosaurs because reptiles never stopped growing so when people are living to be 900 everything was living longer and dinosaurs lived with Adam and Eve Noah took him on the ark probably babies after the flood things changed lifespans dropped off to 400 and 200 and today hardly anybody makes it to a hundred but that's all covered in my seminar series so most of the dinosaurs died off or were killed off by man they called them dragons generally during this first thousand years or so after the flood some may still be around that's my video number three about dinosaurs but along comes Daniel about 600 years before Christ and God gives Daniel a vision of the future oh well the Bible says in 2nd Peter the scoffers in the last days would be ignorant of the creation and the flood and the coming judgment of God 2nd Peter chapter 3 and I think many Christians are ignorant of the creation what was it like there ignorant of the flood where'd the water come from where did it go and they're ignorant of the future the coming of the Lord come he said he's coming back in a cloud when does this happen what are the events about this so in my book and on my chart I take the position that Daniel was given a prophecy for his people Israel that was for 70 weeks and for 70 with this prophecy of 70 weeks I am convinced is divided into three sections seven weeks and then sixty-two weeks and then one week and most people who study this will agree I think there may be a few outliers but I would say 99% would say each of the week referred to here is a group of seven years a cluster of seven years so when it says seventy weeks it means seventy sevens or 490 years are determined for thy people that's the position I take that's the position most people take I don't think I've heard to anybody defend anything else logically but maybe I don't know I don't know I have no idea what Gary believes we'll find out in a minute so what I did at the end of time right here we're I think starting probably pretty soon I've got a little yellow stripe representing 7 years the 70th week of Daniel that is greatly expanded on the top timeline to be this seven year period so that is the same as this down here this seven year period i divided up in my book and on my chart into five parts a B C D and E and then the thousand-year reign of Christ a millennium it's called milli means thousand I also divided up into five parts a b c d and e from my book and for ease of study now there's a fabulous author who wrote an incredible series of books that i've got many among the shelf here somewhere there's not true about the lord coming back any minute how many read some of the tim lahaye books and there he's a captivating author you can't quit reading when you read and the movies are fabulous but it's not true I wish it was so in James chapter 3 he said my brethren be not many masters that's teachers knowing we shall receive the greater condemnation I have been a teacher for years and I've taken this verse very seriously God takes false teaching very serious I'm cautious what I teach if I don't know I'll say I don't know if I have an opinion I'll say well there's four theories on this and here's what I chose but I don't know for sure but if I'm positive I'll stick my neck out and say I'm positive God made the world in six days no question it doesn't matter house it doesn't matter how smart you are how godly you are how sincere you are it must be in accordance with God's Word to be true God told Jeremiah to tell the people they would go into captivity they didn't want to hear it so they beat him up and lock him in the stocks ended all kinds of mean things to Jeremiah but he preached the truth to them and it cost him dearly Bible says no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation for 40 years I studied this book trying to figure out what does it teach about n times and about 10 years ago is when I finally settled okay I think I've got it straight now and I finally wrote my book about if I'm not sure I don't I don't give it I don't I don't say I'm sure it's kind of like a Sudoku puzzle how many vebber done a Sudoku puzzle before the rules are simple every line must have all the letters every column and each quadrant so if I gave you these clues and said this each has to spell out the word kemp kem T hmm well this one could be an N or a T right but I find out right which one is it well if I look over here this can't be the end because there's an end in this column already so this must be the T therefore that must be the end and this must be the T solved it now with that salt I can go along and say well this must be the e because it's got to have all of them in this quadrant well that means this got to be the T well that makes it simple that's got to be the K and that's the e and they you know you you can solve a Sudoku puzzle by process of elimination when you look at all the clues about scripture people argue about to come to all kinds of different conclusions on this and no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation there should be two or three at least verses on any particular topic and I want to show you here's where Daniel started seventy weeks and I'm going to take the position strongly that each week represents a group of seven years so for 490 years seventy weeks are determined upon thy people that would be Daniels people the Jews to do several things to finish the transgression to make an end of sins to make reconciliation for iniquity to bring in everlasting righteousness I think we could probably all agree that hasn't happened yet to seal up the vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy he goes on in verse 25 know therefore and understand this is the angel talking to Daniel from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and threescore in two weeks a scores 20 so threescore would be 60 so it's gonna be seven weeks and then sixty-two weeks why did they divide that off the only thing clue I can find on this and I'm not dogmatic it looks to me like when the Daniels prophecy was given 49 years later the book of Malachi the last book was written that seems to me the only way this fits together I may be wrong on that I'm willing to listen but for there's a seven weeks broken off for some reason that may be it or they return to Israel the seven-year the seven weeks or 49 years but they're still leaves one week left the general consensus of Christians for the last 2,000 years has been there's a sixty-nine week period from when the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem keep in mind this was given to Daniel while he's in captivity in Babylon because his country had been ransacked and destroyed I heard they were all taken slaves he said somebody's gonna give a commandment to rebuild Jerusalem when that happens start your clock 69 weeks later or 483 years later the Messiah is going to come back after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off that's always the biblical expression for shall be killed so the Messiah is going to be killed but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary and the end thereof shall be with a flood and unto the end of the war desolations are determined and he I have a question mark here because I suspect that is the Antichrist though there is some speculation several opinions about who's the he in Daniel 9:27 he shall confirm the covenant and agreement of some kind with many doesn't say what the many are for one week and in my book I cover all the different theories I could come up with I suspect it's probably gonna be some Muslim leader from one of the countries that surround Israel and hate Israel he's gonna make a covenant an agreement a treaty hey guys we're gonna let you build your temple on our property which is what they would say Jews have been wanting to build their temple on the Temple Mount for a long time got destroyed in 70 AD and as he's gonna make a cover a seven year treaty for a week I take that to be a one-week treaty in the midst of the week that would be three and a half years he and I take that to be the Antichrist shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease what hold it if they're doing sacrifices in the temple they're gonna have to have a temple built in the first half of the tribulation or the seven-year period so during the first seven years they build the temple in the middle of the seven years he breaks the treaties that we're taking over this happened when Antiochus type of this one Antiochus in a thousand or a hundred rows a year 162 BC roughly he went in and sacrificed a pig on the altar on the Jewish temple and desolated the temple is now that it was desolate for a thousand days in that time so that was not the fulfillment of this prophecy for sure but it was a typology of that so he's going to make the sacrifice that somehow break the treaty and stop them from sacrificing in the temple and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate the temple is going to be desolate again even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate so the people of the prince that shall come we'll see about that okay and he talks about this the princess shall come so what's happening the Temple Mount in Israel's the city of Jerusalem today there's a 37 acre platform called the Temple Mount that's where the original temple was built by Solomon it was destroyed nobody knew where it was even the Muslims came in there and 600 AD took over that region and somebody said Mohammed came down on from his vision and landed on a rock and went up to straight up to heaven from a rock they built their mosque of Omar over this rock there's the mosque of Omar from the air built in 600 AD here's the Temple Mount right here in about roughly 37 acres so then somebody were told the Muslim ruler and 1500s he said hey the must Bible says the Messiah is going to come through the eastern gate there's the eastern gate let's close it off so they bricked it shut Saddam Messiah can come now it says in Ezekiel 44 he brought me back the way of the gate of the sanctuary toward the east and it was shut then said the Lord the gate shall be shut it shall not be opened and no man shall enter in by it because the Lord God of Israel hath entered in that's where Jesus came in from the Mount of Olives on the donkey and they put their clothes down and waved and said ëi hosanna here comes the king three days later they crucified Him it is for the prince and he shall sit in it to eat bread before the Lord he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate and shall go out by that gate and so the Muslims blocked the gate shut about five hundred years ago and said aha now he can't come and they put a cemetery out front however they've now discovered that that is not the original eastern gate my understanding is it was further north way up here and you can barely see at the top of it it's all under dirt now and a Muslim cemetery in front of it so that's the eastern grab right behind it open land nothing back there easily they could tell the Jews will sell you 15 acres for 200 trillion dollars and you can build your temple on this spot and they are chomping at the bit to build that temple they can't wait they've got it all designed out laid out ready to go all the materials ready all they got to get is a treaty and they're gonna start building so I theory number one is that some world leader will make a treaty through the United Nations theory number two some Muslim leader will make a treaty with Israel I don't know we shall see but I take the position this seven-year period is still yet to come I just briefly talked to Gary I don't even know what he believes but apparently he does not believe there is a trip tribulation time like this or a coming I take it to be the seven-year period broken up into two parts in the middle of the tree seven years he breaks the treaty and then there's the Great Tribulation let me show you quickly here and you can have all the time I've got let's say 19 take your time okay get to the Matthew 24 if you look at Matthew chapter 24 if you have your Bible there Jesus disciples asked him a simple question Lord when are you coming and what's the sign of your come here to slide 54 ok obv 54 Matthew Matthew 24 as he sat upon the Mount of Olives the disciples came unto him privately saying tell us when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world pretty clear two questions Lord when are you coming and what's the sign we look for in mark 13 you read the same thing tell us when shall these things be and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled in Luke 21 you see the same thing they asked him master when shall these things be and what sign shall there be so I lined them all up I cut copied the pages out of the Bible let's put them side-by-side photocopy them Matthew Mark Luke and they are all in the back of my book if you'd like to follow along all these passages side by side Matthew Mark and Luke the parallel passages tape them together said okay let's see how did he answer their question in the red pack red box here here's them asking that question when are you comin you're coming what's the sign in Matthew for the next 23 verses he describes a horrible time of tribulation in mark he takes a dozen in nineteen verses and in Luke it's 17 verses you can read those for yourself in the middle of each of these the yellow box is when the treaty is broken the abomination of desolation in the middle of this period of time right there the yellow box on the chart here at the end of each one of these passages he answers the question let's see right here in verse 29 of Matthew 24 immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the Sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds remember the angel said he went up into cloud he's coming back in a cloud so when's he coming after the tribulation what's the sign the Sun and the moon are gonna go dark hmm and they shall see the Son of man coming close of heaven and he shall send His angels and gather together his elect the gathering together is what Christians have commonly called the rapture the word is not found in the Bible but the word means to snatch away to snatch something away to rapture and so he's going to gather all of the Christians if any are still alive out of here now in mark he answers their question at the end of that 19 verses by saying in those days after the tribulation the Sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light that's the sign the Jews seek after a sign the Greeks seek after wisdom the Jews are always looking for some kind of sign okay at least George Jesus what's the sign the Sun and the moon are gonna go dark I think everybody's going to notice that and with a sudden the moon going dark is mentioned 10 times in the Bible sometimes it's associated with an earthquake so even blind people are gonna know something's going on so the Sun in the moon go dark and an earthquake and then they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds and then he shall send His angels and gather together his elect if you read the story in 1st and 2nd thessalonians associated with the angels coming is a trumpet blast when the trumpet blows were all caught out here and so this is the my position is that we're coming he's coming back after the tribulation time when the sun and the moon go dark in Joel chapter 2 Joel said the Sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and terrible day of the Lord come I was guilty 4 years of confusing not distinguishing clearly between the day of the Lord which is the thousand year period and the day of Christ which is the rapture that's why you better get a King James Bible if you're gonna study this topic because the newer perversions have really screwed this up calling day of Christ the day of the Lord and they are not the same okay so Joel said the sun's gonna be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the day of the Lord when they quote that verse in the book of Acts chapter 2 they're quoting this verse he said the Sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the Great and notable day of the so Jesus coming must be before the day of the Lord in Acts they saw him go up in a cloud and the angel said this same Jesus is going to come back in like manner he's coming back in a cloud so the sequence is very simple there's a time of tribulation mentioned in Matthew Mark Luke and John and acts then the Sun and the moon go dark and then the day of the Lord starts tribulation has several parts to it let me go to two four seven here let's see Daniel Daniel all through the Book of Daniel it talks about this temple being desolate watch get my book for more on that let me show you what I wanted to get to to there okay in the Book of Daniel when you read the prophecy in chapter 7 and again then all this is the charts in my book on the page before that it talks about he the Antichrist is going to prevail against the Saints he shall prevail against them and then they shall possess the kingdom he's going to whoop him up beat him up and then they possess the kingdom I was always hoping we get raptured out here before any tribulation starts tribulation is what the world does to us Jesus said in the world ye shall have tribulation john 16 now first let's onehans tells us god's children are not appointed unto wrath wrath is different than tribulation so here's what I covered earlier let's see right here he talks about the time of tribulation and I thought I had the Thessalonians oh I'm sorry 361 narrative their first and second Thessalonians those books every single chapter talks about the coming of the Lord chapter 1 he told them to wait for his son from heaven even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come we're not here when the wrath hits the wrath is what God does to the world that takes place in the day of the Lord we are here for the tribulation that takes place before the day of the Lord comes chapter 2 our what is our hope and joy and Crown to rejoice are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming so it mentions the coming chapter three at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints chapter four I would not have you to be ignorant brethren concerning them which are asleep those that have already died that she's sorrow not even as others which have no hope for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him and we're to this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent an old english word proceed or go before we're not gonna go before those who are asleep for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout the voice of the Archangel and the Trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first that's the Southern Baptist and then that's the joke and then everybody else gets to go okay then we which are alive and remain and shall be caught up together with them in the clouds so I think the Bible is clear he said wherefore comfort one another jesus is coming back he's coming in the clouds they're gonna blow a trumpet and we're gonna be caught up out of here and this is a comforting passage to know there's a rapture we're going to be caught up we're gonna be gathered together and it takes place after the tribulation when the Sun and the moon go dark so that's enough we'll save the rest for a QA time or anything else but brother that's my position after a long time of being wrong on the topic so tell me what you think my name is Gary Tamar I'm president of American vision and basically I'm an author been working with American vision we're in the Powder Springs Georgia right outside of Atlanta been working there since 1980 various topics I address our governmental issues what does the Bible say about God and government self government family government church government and a decentralized civil government I deal with issues related to law the application of God's law to society as well as to the individual the family and the church I deal with economic issues what does the Bible say about economics and also spend a lot of time on education in the area of apologetics as well especially dealing with the moral implications of evolution Adams in and of themselves do not exude any sort of morality there's a nature red in tooth and claw I've been working on a book for a little while called why my white might be okay to eat your neighbor if evolution is right can anything be wrong so in many many cases Kent and I probably share quite a few interests one of the interests I that got me on this particular topic I wrote a series of books back in the eighties called God in government it was originally a three-volume work it's been used in home school movement across the country I would go out and speak on that particular topic and I would find people there's always one person in the crowd who would say but wait a minute we're living in the last days the rapture is right around the corner all the signs are leading that way why are you bothering dealing with the issue of government and why why do you care about politics why should we even be involved Jesus didn't get mixed up in politics there's a separation between church and state politics is dirty jesus said My Kingdom is not of this world you can go on and on our citizenship is in heaven and since we're living in the end times and the the rapture whatever position whatever the five wraps your positions you take we're living in the end times you know things look people look at the world which are living today and they see we see wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes and things of that that sort as if those things that never happened before well they have happened before but all kinds of wars the 20th century had First World War Second World War you had the Korean War my father served in both the Second World War in the Korean War the Vietnam War you can go all the way through history and you'll see wars and rumors of wars the crucial issue that we're we need to deal with and this in this particular topic isn't so much the millennial issue it's the things that happened before then it's the the so-called Great Tribulation that is said to be a seven-year period that's offset in in the future and there are five different rapture positions there is the pre-tribulation rapture that Christians are taken off the earth and it before the seven-year period there's a mid-tribulation rapture where Christians are taken off at the midpoint of the seven year period there's a post tribulation will rapture position where people are where Christians are taken off the earth at the end of the seven year period so you got pre mid and post and then there are two minor positions the one is a partial rapture and one that's gaining you know some popularity today is called a pre-wrath rapture that will Christians will go through the tribulation but right before God pours out his wrath God will then rapture his Saints I think the pre-wrap position is is probably the most accurate because it's the one that's that's taught in Scripture and there's some examples of it and but the big question is does the Bible ever teach that this seven-year period is pushed off into the future and from the sixth the end of the 69th week or the 483 years that is is there a gap between the 69th week and the seventh the 70th week and between the 69th week and the 70th week we are living in today with a two thousand year parenthesis that's the question it's not the question about with Jesus returning at the end of history it's not that's it's not that the things are bad in the world today the question is does the Bible teach that there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week because that 70th week is crucial to all the rapture positions you don't have that 70th year that's that final seven years 70 weeks though for the final seven years you don't have any of the rapture positions so what might what has to be proved is that there's a gap between the 69th and the 70th week and here's another thing you have to prove when you read Daniel 9:24 through 27 what you have to find in there is talk about a rebuilt temple now not just any rebuilt temple you have to talk about a a rebuilt temple after the rebuilt temple that's very crucial because Daniel is writing that prophecy while he is still in exile the temple has not been rebuilt and Jerusalem has not been rebuilt so with Daniel mentions the temple when he mentions Jerusalem he's mentioned the temple that was actually in Jesus's day it was the temple that Jesus went into in John chapter 2 or Jesus referred to destroy this temple and in three days they'll raise it back up again the Jews were thinking about the temple that Herod was was rebuilding it had been destroyed during the Maccabee in period but when Daniel was writing his prophecy that temple had not been built yet that temple was only built after the the captivity period so in order to propose that there is a temple beyond the temple that Jesus that Jesus describes in Matthew chapter 24 you need some verse that says there's going to be a temple beyond that one there isn't a single verse in the New Testament that says anything about a rebuilt temple and people will say well what about second Thessalonians 2 there's a temple mentioned there but that temple was still standing when when Paul gave his his directions regarding the man of lawlessness that temple was still standing but what about the the temple in in Matthew chapter 24 that temple was still standing Jesus pointed the stones out to it there's not a single verse in the New Testament says anything about a rebuilt temple and there's no verse there's nothing in math in in Daniel chapter 9 verses xx of 24 through 27 that says anything about a gap between the 69th and the 70th year you can read it we're not supposed to import things into the Bible that aren't there we need to take Bible at it's worth there's no gap between the 69th and 70th week I'll tell you what else isn't there there's no mention of an antichrist there if you read the passage you have messiah the prince you have messiah and you have the the people of the prince who is to come who says that's the Antichrist who says that they you know the the he and in the next verse is as the Antichrist there's no mention of an antichrist in there one would think if you saw the word Messiah that you would have to see the word anti Messiah there you just can't make those kinds of deductions from very very little of what the text actually says so and I'm going to I want to go back to the this the 70 weeks of years thing and the gap because that's an extremely important part of the prophecy how does it how does Daniel 9 begin do you remember what happens at the beginning of Daniel 9 daniel is reading what we would call today The Book of Jeremiah and in Jeremiah chapter 25 verse 11 it states how long the captivity is why is Daniel in captivity because the violation all the way back to the Levitical laws and they're there they're gonna put the Land of Israel to rest for seventy years and so they're gonna be deported there the northern tribes first and then finally the southern tribes and they're gonna be deported they're gonna be in captivity for 70 years here's the question what if God at the end of the 69th year without telling the Jews that he just decided well theirs is going to be a gap there we're just going to put a gap between the 69th and 70th year and so the people of Israel just waiting waiting that the 70th year is going to come and it doesn't it came in they're still what is still in captivity and then that well maybe we miscalculate so they wait another year and another year in another year so they finally get one of the prophets and the Prophet insists the Prophet can't communicate with God and see why we're still here oh don't worry what I did is I put a parenthesis in there I put a gap in time you're still only in captivity for 70 years but we're not counting the parentheses so I believe that the 70 years of captivity is the anchor point for the 70 weeks of years that it's the same relationship no gap in the in the captivity no gap in the 70 weeks of years there's nothing in the text that says there's a gap you have to import that into the text there's nothing in the Texas that this is the Antichrist I believe all those references are to Jesus Christ Jesus is the one who ends up bringing judgment on Jerusalem which took place in Matthew chapter 24 this isn't the Antichrist it that's doing this what's the definition of Antichrist you always ask this ask people what no what is the biblical definition for Antichrist what is the biblical definition for Antichrist not someone who denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh all right is this a world leader know how many Antichrist are there were there actually there are many of them first John chapter 2 verse 18 there were many antichrists the only time the word Antichrist is used in the Bible is in first John and second John that's it and the definition is very clear repeated a couple of times someone who denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh that's the biblical definition of Antichrist and yet today's Antichrist is a composite Antichrist they take the phrase Antichrist and they say well it's them it's a man of lawlessness and Chapman and and second Thessalonians 2 it's the Beast that's actually there are two beasts in Revelation chapter 13 and it's the little horn you pick all the bad guys you can find in the Bible and they say that's the Antichrist but it doesn't fit the definition I I'm in the Presbyterian Church in America which is the conservative Bible believing denomination and we subscribe to the Westminster Confession of faith and in the Westminster Confession of faith that had the definition of Antichrist and the Antichrist was supposed to be the papacy in fact that was a very popular view for many many years that the Roman Catholic Church the Pope was the papacy and it was written into content into a cradle and content and confessional material they eventually took it out they weren't saying that the the Roman Catholic Church was the true Church they just said it doesn't fit the definition of Antichrist I've got a book here Christopher Hill Antichrist in 17th century England look at this book these are just this is a book about the Antichrist people thought the Antichrist was in 16th 17th century England there's a book that we published the day in the hour it's a 2,000 nearly 2,000 year survey of all the different types of people who claim to be the Antichrist or people said were the Antichrist the same passages that are being used today in popular prophecy books and so forth are they're using the same verses that they used why is it that they got this wrong because I think they'd miss applied the Antichrist passages now so one one I remember reading in Kent's book about the gap and the the reference he used was I believe it was Luke chapter 4 verse 18 he says well the Bible does deal with with gaps in time and see if I can find this real quick yeah Jesus is quoting from Isaiah chapter 61 1 and 2 the Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor he has sent me to proclaim the release of the captives and recovery of sight to the blind to set to set free those who are downtrodden to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord and then but if you go back to if you go back I think it still Isaiah chapter 61 verse 2 I don't have any slides here sorry I don't work well with slides to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord and the day and the day of vengeance of our God and so Jesus doesn't say that he doesn't use that particular part of the passage he did he and what what most people say is well see there's a gap because Jesus sat down he basically closed the book and he sat down and so the where the passage talks about and the vengeance of our God that's still in the future and I noticed that Kent had had had written in parentheses between Isaiah 61 and 62 that there was a 2000 year gap well I don't believe there's a 2000 year gap that's something you have to import into the text I believe that the the venj Jesus was distraught with Isaiah was talking about would take place and you read if you read Luke chapter 21 it talks about the day of vengeance what is that day of vengeance the day of vengeance is the destruction of Jerusalem that took place in AD 70 that's what's being described there that's the day of vengeance that is the day where Jesus returns in judgment and judges Jerusalem just like he predicted he did there is no place in the Bible where you will find a certain number of days certain number of weeks or a certain number of years words like there is a gap in any of the numbers Daniel not the 70 weeks of years were setting off this the 70th week from the other 69 69 weeks it would be the only place in scripture where there's a gap in time and yet none as indicated there isn't a gap indicating anywhere in the text so there's no Antichrist mentioned that's something you really have to put into the text yet the takes think concepts from the from the New Testament and pour it into that passage doesn't say anything about an antichrist what anti the Antichrist doesn't make covenants who makes covenants who makes covenants God makes covenants God who made covenants with the many Matthew chapter 26 28 there are other places Matthew 26:28 let's see verse 26 and while they were eating Jesus took some bread and after a blessing he broke it and gave it to the disciples and said take eat this is my body and he took a cup and gave thanks and gave it to them saying drink from it all of all of you for this is my blood of the Covenant which is to be shed on behalf of many for forgiveness of sins Jesus was confirming the covenant with with Israel that's why he came he came first to the lost sheep of Israel that was that was his main motive but that wasn't the only thing he came to do he came to say that the bring in the Gentiles that this promise that was made to Abraham many many years before the Gentiles would be grafted into an already existing believing remnant of Jews that is the confirmation of the the covenant if I can again find this I think maybe it's a miss Bible over here next time next time Kent I'm going to come with I'm gonna come with slides go ahead I'm trying to use my King James Bible here as best I can romans 15 verse 8 now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth the truth of God to confirm the promises made unto the fathers and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy as it is written for this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles and sing unto thy name that's confirming the covenant he promises had in fact been made to the Gentiles to the nation's and promises had been made to the to Israel let me read this again now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God to convert to confirm the promises the made under the fathers and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy as it is written for this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles and sing unto thy name Antichrist doesn't make covenants if you read the the the Antichrist passages nothing is said about making covenants nothing at all nothing is said about making a pact with Israel where is where is that in the tax nothing is said about making a deal with Israel Jori Anna said that seven year period and then breaking it it's not in the text anywhere so that's why I maintain that the keep passage the key verses that that make it possible for the seven-year period to be pushed into the future where all these things happen regarding the Antichrist the passages that are used to do that don't say anything about those things you have to end up in putting things into the text that aren't there and I'm not willing to do that so no matter what wraps your position someone holds and it's all dependent on and you will find almost all people who hold this they maintain that the key is Daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27 and as I read those things as a new Christian thing Google where are those things so all the all everything else if it if if you can't get make that work everything else in essence has to be redone the second coming of Christ that's that's that's not an issue if in fact the if you study the history of the interpretation of daniel 9:24 through 27 you'll find a majority a majority of people throughout history you never saw a gap between the 69th and the 1773 no they didn't they didn't deny the the second coming of Christ many of them didn't deny that it would be an antichrist at the end of history but they did not base it upon Daniel chapter 9 24 through 27 and they didn't come up with this idea that you're going to make a covenant with the Jews and then break that covenant they're going to rebuild the temple etc etc so this is the key to all this is determining what the Scriptures have to say about Daniel 9:24 through 27 that's where we need to that's where we need to Center our attention we could I'm Kent brought up all kinds of things about you know Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21 the Sun Moon and stars of the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds wars and rumors of wars the abomination of death halation second Thessalonians 2 I mean all of those things need to be discussed but the first thing that has to be discussed in order to deal with the the the next supposed next event in Bible prophecy the next event in Bible prophecy is according to those who hold the rapture position there's this seven-year period and many people believe that it's it's very near before we even started this just this session I was talking to some of you and this gentleman over here and I became a Christian in 1973 I was 23 years old at the time I was a senior in college I was there on an athletic scholarship and my life was going downhill I was so I put all my efforts into athletics didn't know what I wanted to do and I ran into an old college friend and we sat in a pub in Ann Arbor Michigan I was there for a track meet and he opened up the he started talking about the late great planet Earth no I really wasn't paying that much attention to the eschatology I was paying more attention to the gospel because I needed a new life in Christ and I found it there that night but he encouraged me to go and read the late great planet Earth so I did I read a late great prayers and I started reading the Gospel of Matthew and I came across passages that just didn't fit but this is what Hal Lindsey said in nineteen in 1970 when that book was published that book sold about 27 million copies it was designated the most popular nonfiction book of the 1970s and I think Kent and I would agree it was probably the most popular fiction book of the 1970s because it made kind of a prediction it says Israel became a nation again in 1948 and by the way the New Testament doesn't say anything about this or become a nation again in any particular time the Old Testament talks about Israel becoming a nation again and Israel did in fact become a nation again after the exile he said is really coming in Asia again in 1948 was was prophetically significant he said a generation was 40 years this generation will not pass away into all these things take place Matthew 24:34 yet 42 48 and what do you get 88 and there was a book that came out in 88 by Edgar wisnan and Edgar wasn't it it was called 88 reasons why the raptures in 1988 he was a NASA scientist least he said he was and Fortin hopefully he was well thankfully he wasn't on the moon the moon shot we would have had tragedies with that kind of deal he wrote a book the next year said oh I forgot I forgot when you go from BC to AD you have to remember not to add a year and so he said it was in 1989 well it became 1988 and I debated I've debated a Dave hunt a number of times I don't know if you remember Dave hunt on this particular topic and he even made mention of the fact that this was a this was a problem and Chuck Smith talked about 1948 being prophetically significant well 1988 is gone gone so they change this and what was it it wasn't 1988 1948 it was 1967 so 40 plus 67 is 2007 well now this is 2020 and the all these predictions that these men made about all these things about this happening taking place you know what happened is you found like someone like Bart Ehrman we give you an example of barter but I don't know if you know who he is you went to moody you went to moody very conservative school believed in a pre-tribulation rapture and Bart Ehrman ended up I think going to Princeton and he and essentially said his professor said to him what if Jesus was wrong what if Jesus was wrong and so Herman began to see look well these guys were making these predictions about things Tim well hey said well is this was all going to start at the at the end of the first world war we've been about 1917 well as we got closer to the forty year period ended up changing it and I think even Henry Morris did the same sort of thing it was that it was that generation the World War one generation so this idea that this is right on the horizon it's always on the horizon jesus is coming real soon all the signs are indicating that they're coming real soon I want you to know every single generation believed that Jesus was coming within their generation I've got a book in my library written by Oswald J Smith it was written in 1927 and then that book he declared that Mussolini was the Antichrist and he had all the Bible verses that everyone used today in order to maintain that he was the Anti Christ of course when Mussolini was was executed in 1945 that kind of changed things but you know what he did anytime Oswald J Smith went out to speak he said someone would bring that book and he would buy it back because he made these predictions he was dead wrong Allen Lindsey was wrong Chuck Smith was wrong now it doesn't mean that let's just buy that the necessarily that position is wrong so I'm back to you have to demonstrate from Daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27 that there's a gap between the 69th 69th and 70th week a gap of nearly 2,000 years and you have to give me an example in scripture where we also see gaps look I know creationists don't like gaps they don't like get a gap between Genesis 1 and 2 they don't like gaps between the first day and the second day and the third day and the fourth day and the fifth day and the sixth day they don't like gaps and it's it's a it's always amazed me that the creation movement which is which is which I'm part of with the creation movement is very much into the end times as well and basing it on Daniel chapter 9 24 through 27 and yet they place a gap and are very comfortable with that gap even though the text doesn't say there's a gap so I think I've given enough of my position that you know where we are I can't talk a lot more about other things which we may get into some of those things but I think right now we need to Center in on Daniel nine because it's I think you said it and I think Henry Moore said it as well it's it's it's the key to Bible popular to popular Bible prophecy today all right well let me give a response to a little bit of that by the way this is for those watching on youtube this is my library and sorry about a little bit disordered thank you ladies for trying to straighten it up I'm sorry I make your job hard on you never end okay I would have to very strongly disagree Gary and a couple of things I think there's let's see in the book of Exodus chapter three let me see what this says here Exodus chapter three verse number seven the Lord said I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt and I've heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters for I know their sorrows and I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians God is telling Moses to go back and you get him out of there and to bring them up out of the land unto a good land and a large and unto a land flowing with milk and honey and into the place of the Canaanites the Hittites the Emirates the parasites that have yet besides electric lights and all them light boys okay so God told Moses I want you to go get my people out so I can bring them into the land of the bad guys up here there's a gap between when they came out and when they went in a gap of 40 years because of their disobedience they went up to the land they said there's giants in there we don't want to go fight those giants question there was a gap is there a gap between oh yes they're looking good so you said yeah there's a gap from history we can see it the Bible says there's a gap the Bible doesn't say there's a gap we know that there was a gap because they didn't go in right away yeah but God punished from from numbers 13 and 14 they were to go into the land and they brought back a negative report and said there were giants in the land we can't go in there Gary I said there are no examples of gaps and you want somebody to give you what I'm giving it I'm saying there's no place where there is a gap in numbers where when a certain number is given and there's no description of that number there God says there is going to be 40 and you're going to be in the in the wilderness for 40 years after they disobeyed yes but there don't but my point the Bible is telling you well there's a forty-year they could have gone right in straight out of Egypt I know they could have my point is the text of Scripture is telling you there's a 40-year period before they're going to land on a major place nothing in Daniel that says because of the children of Israel's disobedience that God said that's it I'm putting you on the shelf you're gonna wander around for 40 years till you're all dead your children you know that because the Bible says correct now Jesus came presented himself as king they said yeah hail King and they put their robe down he rode in on the donkey and then they crucified him instead he said Oh God said I'm gonna put you on the shelf for two thousand years I'm gonna work with the Gentiles for a while where does he say that I just said that he grafted us in to the body to the Romans chapter 11 we had a wild olive branch grafted in and there so in Isaiah passage that you quoted in the loop Jesus stopped in the middle of the passage here it is in Luke chapter 4 he said to preach the acceptable year of the Lord and he stopped in the middle of the passage when you read the passage in Isaiah to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord and the day of vengeance of our God there's apparently a gap in here now I'm shocked that you would say again you're saying apparently there's a gap that texts say there's a gap okay are you saying the day of vengeance of our God is already past oh yeah I do if you're the preterist you believe in the predator view this happened 17 all cruises are predator oh I'm not okay you know I don't believe there are 300 prop there are 300 prophecies in the big on this house stick on this one topic okay okay okay your service jesus told his disciples when they asked him very clearly lord when are you coming and what's the sign right he told him he was going to come in the clouds after the tribulation in 70 AD did every I see him and they also which pierced him did everybody see Jesus come back was there a trumpet blast and the Sun and the moon go dark in 70 AD yes actually it did you think it did yeah well show that I'll show you I'd like to see that go ahead but first I want to make this point it's a very simple point you're bringing up passages that aren't numbered passages other than the one out of Exodus but Jesus we know from the know from the passage in Exodus that from numbers that they were to go into the land and we're taught we're told by scripture itself that they're gonna go into the land 40 years their scripture says that ok so there's nothing in Daniel 9 24 through 27 that says there's a gap at 69th it says in Exodus it doesn't say there be a gap of 40 years either later we find out about the 40 years okay by how well by God told them exactly that's my point so your God standpoint completely I want everybody else to see I think how shallow this point is you're saying because it doesn't say there'll be a 2,000 year gap in Daniel therefore there isn't a 2,000 year gap and it will fill what about from the time he was crucified until 70 AD that's a 40-year gap but doesn't mention that gap I don't say there is a you say didn't you said he came back in 70 AD yeah that's a 40-year gap but 40 years from what from his crucifixion but jesus said isn't there 40 years between 30 ad and 70 80 no number given it says it is why was there a 40-year get why did he come back in 31 ad and burn down the temple and we're in the New Testament does it give a set number where he said he was going to come you're the one complaining about the numbers I'm not complaining I'm gonna okay go ahead go ahead wait again the lady has something to say here okay let me let me do let me deal with this thing about the where what you find in Daniel 9 is it says desolations are determined within the 70 year period it says I believe that's the 70 year period let me just give you my deal Jesus the last set in the 70 years the is the first three and a half years as Jesus's ministry the next three and a half years takes you to the time of the Gentiles probably it would be the Peter who is very reluctant to go to the Gentiles and it's it's the the vision of the the sheets coming down out of heaven with unclean animals on them all right that's the end that's the end of the 70 weeks of years that's the end of the 490 years first three and a half years the ministry goes to the to the dis to the Jew first as Paul says to the lost house of Israel do you all that's why Jesus on the cross says it's finished then if you go to Luke chapter 24 and Jesus goes through all of the Old Testament twice it mentions this and shows that all those prophecies were talking about him and then it said to let the final three-and-a-half the final three and a half years and but what you find within the daniel seventy weeks it says desolations are determined see the determination of the desolation is determined within the 70th week now if you go to matthew chapter 23 it's very crucial that you understand matthew chapter 23 because 23 feeds into 24 the reason that the disciples asked a question regarding the temple was because of things jesus said in chapter 23 and so if you read and I'm gonna start 31 consequently you bear witness against yourselves that you were sons of those who murdered the prophets fill up the met fill up then the measure of the guilt of your fathers you serpents you brood of vipers how shall you escape the sentence of hell therefore behold I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes some of them you will kill and crucify some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city that all happened you can read the book of Acts that upon you that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth from the blood of righteous abel to the blood of zechariah the son of berechiah whom you murdered between the temple and the altar truly I say to you this generation will not pass away into all these things take place Jesus is talking about their generation not some future generation why don't we there was a secondary interpretation of that I know there is okay okay verse 37 o Jerusalem who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hand gathers her chicks under her wings and you were unwilling now listen to this remember desolations are determined in the 70th week according to my view behold your house is being left to you desolate see Jesus makes the pronouncement during his ministry that the temple would be left to them desolate but it gives them 40 years very much you know like the wilderness deal but in this time in this sense it's a time of blessing because the gospel goes out believe on the Lord Jesus Christ believe on the Lord Jesus Christ believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he'll be saved embraced and embraced the Messiah and that's exactly what happened people say well that Israel rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah well the the trials and all those things were held at night because they feared the people what happened on Pentecost who did the God who heard the gospel first the Jews there were Jews living in Jerusalem from every nation under heaven 3,000 people came to Christ in chapter 2 chapter 4 five thousand chapter 21 Myriad's of Jews now listen for I say to you from now on you shall not see me until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord chapter 24 remember no chapter divisions or verse numbers in the original original text and Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when his disciples came to point out the temple buildings to him now his disciples I know kent says these are Gentiles and so forth and so on no no it was his disciples that he's talking to in Matthew 24 okay and the answered and said to them do you not see all these things what things truly I say to you not one stone here he's talking about that temple not one stone here shall be left upon another which will not be torn down and as he was sitting on the Mount of Olives the disciples came to him privately saying tell us when will these things be and what will be the sign of your coming and at the end of the age now I know the King James has end-of-the-world I checked Henry Morris's the defenders bible-study I think it's a new one now and he has a note the Greek word there isn't cosmos it's a on and it means age it's a period of time and as it was sitting on the Mount of Olives disciples came up privately saying tell us when were these things be and jesus answered and said to them see to it that no one misleads you for many will come in my name I'm the Christ and listen and you will be hearing of wars and rumors of war see that you are not frightened verse seven for a nation will rise against nation and Kingdom against Kingdom in various places there will be famines and earthquakes all took place before the destruction of Jerusalem Acts chapter eleven there were famines book of Acts famines but all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs but they will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name my point is here this is directed to that particular generation to that audience verse Matthew chapter 24 34 says this generation will not pass away until all these things take place every time this generation is using the Gospels it always refers without exception to the generation to whom Jesus is speaking the only exception people refer to as the one in Luke chapter 16 18 but I I looked at that one and it's still all generations the Greek word there is generation it's not race it's not nation this generation is a near demonstrative it refers to the things that are near this generation if Jesus had a future generation in mind he would have said what that generation will pass time here okay just so you're aware many other people say when he says what he's talking about what's going to happen and then he says this generation shall not pass away in other words this generation that gets to see these things happen look at verse 33 is the one that's not going to pass away now let me get you personally glossed right over a major problem earlier okay let me read it to you from Daniel 9 that's what we're gonna talk about there it is right here look on the screen seventy weeks are determined upon thy people the Jews right upon thy holy city Jerusalem to do what finish the transgression make an end of sins make reconciliation for iniquity bring in everlasting righteousness are you saying that he's already brought in everlasting to happen in 70 AD to anoint the most holy was Jesus anointed them in 70 AD how do you fit this into 70 AD that's nothing to do with 70 AD I agree because there's a gap between this two chapters no well you said it all happened you said it was all fulfilled in 70 AD I did you said the 70 weeks are done 70 weeks he's going to accomplish six things ten to more nautical second you the 70 weeks of years do not go to AD 70 they go to the time of the of the Jesus Christ 70 weeks of years are completed during in the book of Acts probably with Peter your position is during those 70 weeks in the book act Jesus was anointed and we're now living in a time of everlasting righteousness Jesus brought in everlasting righteousness I'd like to see it you need to go downtown Chicago you don't 700k you're you're you're looking at it in terms of everlasting righteousness in terms of per for we're talking about everlasting righteousness as a term encouraged now if Jesus didn't bring in everlasting righteousness if Jesus didn't bring in everlasting righteousness we are still in our sins he brought in everlasting righteousness for us it was imputed to us it's not talking about Chicago and all that kind of thing it's talking about what Jesus did for us and His redemptive work that's why Jesus on the cross said it is finished Joe what's your question they're not music you to thy people die people there it is yeah the Jewish people in Jesus's day this is why I think the preterist view that it all happens already done is heresy I don't think it's true at all I think there has to be a gap between 69 and 70th week and hasn't started yet because certainly we're not living it is in the predator view if I understand your position they teach we're we're going to bring in the kingdom now the Predators do not teach them okay what's with what's is is there anything coming what's the future hold what's the next event to look for I won or is it all done I want to okay that I would bring that this Hebrews 9:12 right neither by the blood of goats and calves but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place see how this is all taken from Daniel having listened having obtained eternal Redemption everlasting righteousness for us that's what Jesus did that's what's being Jesus did they say Antichrist don't do these things Antichrist don't confirm covenants they don't make covenants but you mentioned that eight or ten times I have people make covenants all the time lots of world leaders make coven I don't know where your disciple does it say Antichrist makes the Covenant we're in the Bible doesn't say I have a black computer wearing the but we're in the bible does it say Antichrist see now how many people make covenants you're simply wrong to say only Jesus is allowed to make a covenant many people make Coburn he has made a covenant to get where Antichrist appears in first John and second John well he's tell me where in there it says that he makes covenants are you waiting for the return of Christ is he coming back another time sure yes for to do what when roughly the constant the consummation of all things that the rapture is an event separate from the second coming of Christ it's a different it's here's the deal the rapture takes place according to the to the modern theory the rapture takes place I don't care which one you pick and generally after that becomes a supposedly the thousand-year reign of Christ on the earth the second the the so-called consummating second coming final coming of Christ is not the rapture that's not what the rapture is the rapture is something that was created wholesale by certain writers in order to try to try to fix they said they say that Israel had rejected Jesus as the Messiah and God has to deal with Israel again and sometime in the future some dealing with Israel again you know what happens during the seven-year tribulation period in the future to the Jews God God is supposedly coming back and he's going to redeem Israel what happens to the Jews during the Great Tribulation Period you know many are killed many of you throw our thirds of them are slaughtered so God so 2,000 years we finally wait God's gonna redeem is really starting to deal with Israel again then he's going to allow Antichrist to come in here and allow them to slaughter two-thirds of them this is from Zechariah chapters let me give an answer to that here is my position in my book and on my chart and you haven't changed any of it with the discussion tonight Jesus comes back at the end of the seven year tribulation catches us up to heaven we go to the marriage supper of the Lamb while the wrath of God falls on the world for a 1040 days I get that number because in Daniel he asked him in Daniel 8 how long is the temple going to be desolate he said 2300 days well if the temple is desolate for 2300 days and in the time of Antiochus it was only desolate for a thousand seventy-five days so this is not already done the temple is going to be desolate this is going to be the third temple they're going to build another temple it's going to be desolated in the middle of the seven years for 2300 days it is desolate that's this red stripe on my chart so after we are caught up out of here to the marriage supper of the Lamb God pours out his wrath on the world for almost three years and then we come back Jesus has fights the Battle of Armageddon casts Satan is cast into the pit for a thousand years a thousand years later he's released out of the pit there he is Satan in the pit he's released and now we go to the great white throne judgment this is when all things are settled everything's done there's still a thousand year period coming including a time of Wrath there are fifty verses in the Bible that talk about the wrath of the Lord the wrath falls in the day of the Lord and we saw where the Sun and the moon go dark before the day of the Lord we're raptured out and all references to the Sun and the moon going dark are on my chart here all right behind me the Sun is moon going dark is mentioned ten times starting in Isaiah 13 and the last ones revelation 6:12 the rapture takes place a love relation 6:12 you mentioned a point about the 1948 I'd like to make that I make in my book I don't know where the 40 years comes up as a generation because it says 70 years in Psalms it says a days of a man's life are set threescore and ten and if by reason of strength they be fourscore which is 80 so I took in my book I said I don't know when the Lord's coming I was writing this and publishing it from prison piece at a time on the Internet somebody said we're hoping when's the Lord coming back I said obviously I don't know but if I had to guess I would guess 2028 and here's my reasons why and there's a whole section in my book answering that question why do you think the Lord is coming back in 2028 1948 they became a nation 80 years later is 19 is 2028 that would put the tribulation starting next year we shall see I don't know I'm not setting a date but I think there is a real serious time coming and the Jews are going to be slaughtered by the thousands and so are the Christians it's going to be a horrible time coming for everybody he's hasn't redeemed the Jews yet have the Jews been slaughtered for the last 2,000 years in various countries of course they have after 70 AD he apparently didn't bring in everlasting righteousness cuz God's people got bunch of them got killed in Hitler's Holocaust I don't see how this fits in your theology Gary well like I explained it very very clearly that you are saying things that are going to take place that there's no text of Scripture will actually says that there's no there's no scripture that says there's going to be another rebuilt temple Daniel talks about the temple doesn't say it also doesn't say there isn't going to be like the comply none of them you're using the argument from silence which is a silly argument now you can imbue when you when you make a doctrinal position that is functional to your particular position I mean it is key to your position and you can't find a verse that actually supports it and say well there doesn't say there couldn't be well there couldn't it doesn't say there couldn't be all kinds of things but when you take a particular position saying that this is what this text is all about and that text doesn't say any of those things I just don't think it that's just not a good argument now back I like I said I believe that the the pre-wrap position I think you're correct about that God's people are saved from the pouring out of his record I am post-trib pre-wrath okay now if you look at Matthew chapter 24 what what do you see there you see a local judgment how could you how could you escape this this tribulation that was coming in Matthew chapter 20 was described in Matthew 24 how do you escape it you can't escape it by the way it says you can escape it how do you do it how on foot on foot you can escape it just to the mountains of Judea okay so you can escape it when in that in Luke chapter 21 and when it talks about the abomination that's abomination of desolation what's the warning sign when you see what when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies get out of town all right this isn't a world Matthew 24 is describing some worldwide tribulation there's something very very local but I do agree that there is a difference between tribulation and wrath good yeah you're right on that okay now actually in 70 AD did every I see him and every I behold him did the Sun and the moon go dark in 70 AD and that was the final nemesis you I was interesting you mentioned Isaiah chapter 13 I see a 13-10 where the Sun and the moon go dark right that's the first reference when did that happen it hasn't happened yet but it hasn't it has what's dark out now but you mean to tell me that the punt the the judgment upon Babylon that's what that's describing they're saying the Sun went dark when you babbled on that language is typical all the way that way through this when Babylon fell the Sun went dark that's what the scripture says no the Sun and Moon has not gone dark yet that's still future so you don't believe the scriptures want to set it with Sun of the moon went dark I believe the Sun and Moon will go dark I believe the scripture is completely there are 10 references to the Sun and the moon going dark I simply said the first one is isaiah 13 6 wail for the day of the lord is near it will come as destruction from the almighty the day of the lord it's just talking about the day of the lord this is talking about the judgment on babylon always talk about the day of the lord every okay Isaiah 13 Isaiah 13 prophecies about Babylon the Oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw lift up a standard on bare Hill he's talking about the destruction the judgment upon Babylon Old Testament Babylon he's he's not then jumping 2600 years into the future the whale verse 6 for the day of the Lord is near what they allure the day of the Lord regarding the judgment upon Babylon you added that to the scripture is that right well add to the Word of God that's fine because ok I've just the chapters about the destruction of Babylon you can take it or leave it therefore I want to leave it all hands will fall limp and every man's heart will melt and they will be terrified pains and anguish will take hold of them they will arrive like a woman in labor they will look at one another in astonishment their faces the flame behold the day of the Lord is coming cruel with fury and burning anger to make the land of desolation what land the land of Babylon cruel with fury and burning anger to make the land of this desolation he will exterminate sinners from it for the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light The Sun will be dark when it rises and the moon will not shed its light thus I will punish the world for its evil so when he judged Babylon the Sun went dark and the moon went dark that's your position my position is that's what the Bible says and so in looking at other passages for example don't stay on this one the Isaiah passage obviously has a double meaning like many scriptures do I'm gonna judge Babylon and this is symbolic of how I'm gonna judge the whole world one day as the Sun the Sun of the moon did not go dark there's no historical record in any society because it's descriptive language that the Old Testament uses the most authoritative notice there was a son went dark somebody would have written a record about this okay big world let me ask you this okay if you want to if you want to hold that position I do okay so in book of Revelation chapter 6 when stars were are going to be thrown down to the earth if a star hits the earth will the earth be destroyed well that's an interesting story about the Sun the stars falling okay to the earth we call a piece a rock coming to your atmosphere a shooting star well don't we yeah we do okay how about how about in Chapter 12 we're a third of the stars of heaven are thrown down to earth by the I think you feel if you'll read that in the whole chapter is talking about Satan drew a third of the Angels with his tail is talking about the Fallen Angels in that case so I think this says that it says stars well but the stars are symbolic of the Angels on Scripture aren't so they're symbols or did the Sun in the moon go dark for babylons they're symbols there's there's a lot of symbolism and they've actually exactly for that position is you're incorrect the Sun and the moon did not go dark when Babylon it has an S 11 moon did not go dark and Babylon because it was symbolic okay Nations I'm giving it here's okay how was it I was Israel described in the Old Testament a Genesis chapter 37 Genesis 37 as what Sun Moon and stars remember the dream that Joseph had bowing down to him Sun Moon and stars in chapter 12 there's a woman how was the how was the woman attired you remember I was raised as raised in the Roman Catholic Church and I went to Catholic school was like third grade there was always there was a picture there of Mary and she was standing on she was standing on the moon she had 12 stars around her head then she was draped with the Sun Nathan that was Mary well it's representative Israel Israel's often represented as Sun Moon and stars does is there a giant woman out in space somewhere who's big enough to hold seven stars and be able to big enough to stand on the moon and asbestos enough not to be burnt by the Sun you're absolutely right these are symbols okay we don't have to have the Sun Moon and stars go dark or fall they're symbolic of the fall of Nations okay we've got an hour and a half which is plenty long enough go and give your closing Gary your position is that the 70 AD was the fulfillment of the Matthew 24 passage and the mark and Luke is that correct yes okay and so any closing comments on that yes ma'am questions from the audience again no I'm waiting when I dive to go to heaven to be with Jesus so what's gonna happen but Presbyterians can lose their salvation if they're not careful so I think so well no there won't be an end of time I mean well if Jesus is gonna wrap everything out but that doesn't mean times I mean I mean I guess time as we understand it is what you're saying but no I think there's a consummation in the future I'm you know I'm holding the same position that that Kent does on the the future coming of Christ that's not it that's not what's what I'm dealing with here is dealing with a passage of Scripture that's being used to teach one of these five rapture positions the elements necessary for those necessary for those positions to stand are not found in the passage that are being used there are other verses you can you know deal with what the future holds for us that's another issue I'm coming here just dealing with that particular issue I was intrigued by this someone else had set this thing up for us I don't know if you know that I was he was he was intrigued because then I'm gonna compliment Kent on this it's very difficult to to change a very popular position theological position which millions of people believe especially a preacher of rapture I mean in fact I just read an article yesterday by a professor at Biola Bible Institute of Los Angeles and they have a Talbot School of Theology and there was a professor there who always put an asterisk next to the eschatological statement regarding the pre-trib rapture and they let him they let him go areas because he was teaching apologetics and he said you know he was teaching apologize they really didn't it didn't matter to him well he ended up losing his job because they didn't believe in the pre-trib rapture anymore the count the cost I mean you've changing the position changing the position can be costly I know friends pastors have lost churches and and so forth I mean for for Kent to make that change when there could have been a lot of people who are supporters of the preacher of rapture it cost me dearly yeah thousands of churches will not have me come yeah because I'm no longer pre-trib so I was I was intrigued by that because you know obviously I mean took you forty years I knew I wouldn't come here into in two hours to change it took you forty years to change from pre-trib to here we go I know I'm being more time than that a lot more done but hey if you if you were willing if you were willing to change from from pre pre-trib to pre-wrath post-trib or is it the other way around but you know I'll give you 40 years you'll be on my side okay okay I want to I want to thank you for allowing me to come in here thank you for coming up honor to meet you let me get my closing quickly I probably should have read all of Matthew 24 cuz they asked him Lord when are you coming what's the sign and for the next 19 verses or 23 verses in Matthew he tells him what's going to happen now your position is all this happened before 70 AD right so many came in saying I'm Christ and deceived many there were wars and rumors of wars going on up to before 70 AD gospel have increased the whole world okay all these things nation shall rise against nation did you see that and care about that for the next 40 years in 70 AD oh the nations were okay okay empires have students earthquakes in diverse places then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you you should be hated you many shall be offended and shall fall away they shall hate one another okay many false prophets arose so all this happened before 70 AD okay the love of many wax cold okay but he that shall endure to the end shall be saved so at the end that in seventy who ended the age that's what saved in 70 AD what happened the Jews are still not saved I don't know where you keep brain this the Jews aren't being say they were being saved throughout the whole period but the majority of the nation if I was over there only for seven days but most day this is about that generation okay not some future generation about this generation this so the gospel was preached into the whole world you don't believe that well it says there were seventeen nations gathered together in action do you believe that the you don't believe that the gospel has been preached in the whole world before that generate before 70 AD so during those forty years they went to every island every the whole world you don't believe that you don't believe what that says I do believe what this says I think it happens in future do you believe that Rome taxed the whole world Rome the world didn't own the whole world no Rome didn't own the Fiji I decree went out from Caesar Augustus that the whole world be taxed and you think did that involve North Korea and Vietnam that's what I'm asking you do you think it's obvious the symbolism there the whole world that they controlled exactly okay this by the way let me I know he doesn't like me going to Greek using great I think God preserved his word and Jack yeah in Matthew 24:14 the word that's used there is not cosmos it's the same word that's used in Luke 2:1 Boyko men a throughout the in an inhabited world of the Roman Empire if you look at Colossians 1:23 it's Colossians 1:23 said that the gospel has been preached to every creature under heaven Paul doesn't say it will be it says it has been you look at Romans chapter 1 verse 8 says that the gospel had been known throughout the whole world if you look at Romans chapter 16 says the gospel and preached to all the nations you see this language understand this language if you keep it consistent isn't talking about the whole wide world it's talking about the world of their particular day that's why this generation you didn't you you read verse 34 you didn't read verse 33 33 says that that that particular generation would be the one to see the signs not some future generation and this is what this is this particular we covered that earlier that generation 33 was still future and that generation that sees this is gonna happen that's not what it says that's the secondary interpretation 33 even so you too when you see all these signs recognize that either he or he or it is near right at the door truly I say to you this generation will not pass away until all these things take place this generation look them up for yourself every time this generation is used in Scripture it always refers to the generation of Jesus is speaking it's never talking about a future generation a lot of this is symbolic in here so let's take some more questions here so my position is the Matthew 24 Luke 2 third mark 13 and Luke 21 is still future we're going to face a seven-year period of tribulation then there's going to be a rapture probably not many are gonna be caught up Luke 18 geez in verse eight when the Son of man cometh shall he find faith on the earth I think most of us are gonna be killed in the next seven or eight years my position I'm gonna write that down you watch how many did you say I think in the next seven or eight years we're gonna see incredible persecution of Christians worldwide I hope there's a time of peace in America hopefully doesn't happen here but it may so we don't we have that on tape friends got it on tape we'll put it up on our YouTube channel okay what's your question over there permission yeah yes right what's Matt what is Matthew what is first as I mentioned before the word it's not talking about the whole world at that time what does Matthew 20 and what's the full what's the full expression of Matthew chapter 28 I believe Matthew 28 is still future by the way because it's not talking about taking the gospel into all the world see what Jesus is describing in Matthew 20 no it's not what it says no it doesn't say that you're missing something says that you will make disciples of the nation's we haven't done that that's what we should be doing is making disciples of all the nations not just pre this is this is this is one of these another endtime deals here we think that once we reach all these unreached people that Jesus is going to come back again and so we're not concerned about what what happens in the rest of the world all we're concerned about is getting reaching all these people but see Matthew 28:18 through 20 is talking about disciple in the nations that means when we go into a nation not just to preach the gospel to them and move on but we we are it's what happened you know the reason I got involved with America's Christian heritage because the people who came here early on they were they discipled their children they built schools they established institutions Harvard and Yale and Princeton and so forth yes I didn't say I agree thank you well it doesn't say that in Matthew 28 but I agree with you that Matthew 28:18 through 20 the Great Commission has not been fulfilled it's talking about the discipleship of nations in matthew chapter 4 24 14 that's talking about the gospel going out to the near their world just like the tax was just through the Roman Empire and of Colossians 1:23 Paul says in Colossians 1:23 it's it's hyperbole obviously that the gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven and I know Kent not we would agree well it really wasn't preached every creature under heaven but Paul says it was which is the fulfillment of what Jesus says in Matthew chapter 24 14 you can find that in Colossians 1 3 Romans 1 8 it's either 1 8 or 1 10 and in other places first the first Timothy chapter 3 I don't I don't claim I let the context tell me what's symbolic and we can't and I agree that there are symbolic places and well let's take more questions and we got to quit here but my video tapes of the 207 countries in the world have been to 206 of them than mice I'm sour on creation yeah go ahead did that happen before 70 AD I guess is the question well you can't buy or sell without a mark did the Romans do that No so that's good I think the mark of the beast is similar to the same mark of the Lamb okay so in Romans chapter 13 there's a mark of the beast are actually two beasts in Revelation 13 there's a sea beast which i think is 1st century Rome and there's a land beach which i think is apostate Israel and they colluded with one another you can see it very it's it's all the way through through the subscription through history in fact it's you'll find it in John chapter 19 verse 15 where they were remember Barabbas or Jesus the son of a god son of a god or son of the son of Ziga what Barabbas means son of a son of a god or son of son of the father the son of the father or a son or before I was probably a bastard they gave him a choice who would you have and they all shouted out what Barabbas give us Barabbas and Pilate said I crucify your king and what do they say we know they say we have no king but Caesar so romans revelation 13 I'm not an expert on the book of Revelation I mean that's a completely different field but revelation 13 you see the colluding that takes place between Rome and is and apostate Israel and the number 666 is used and there's more speculation on the number of 666 and there are speculations on antichrists but that mark is is symbolic it's it's the same thing you find in Exodus sit next to the sixth why would it be specific in the right hand or in the forehead how can it be so because it's the same thing that's used in the Old Testament about what were you supposed to do you were supposed to take word God's Word and do what with it what we suppose so you're supposed to put it on your hand and your forehead so that'll be the mark you can't buy or sell unless you wear about no I'm just saying is is that it's it is because if you it is symbolic okay it's because it's that your your mind and what to work and work it to do but the very next chapter the very next chapter is the there's the lamb so you got these beasts and you have the lamb but if it's those who has his mark so what physical mark or does the lamb have if the 666 is supposed to be an actual 666 like so Salem care bonds book it's got them stamped on your head and stamped on your hand then what what is the what is the mark of the Lamb what's the mark of the Lamb what is what where's the mark of the land you're supposed to have what is it see they're there they're equal in the sense of whatever they whatever mark they are theirs they're the same I mean same in and the way that they're applied and the number is not 666 at 666 I believe you have to make a choice every day and on who you're going to serve I'm just saying that they if the phrase Antichrist if you look at the terms Antichrist they're very clear as to what they are an antichrist is someone who denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh that's anti-crime I'm trying to stick with the I'm trying to stick to the biblical definition okay well it's anti does mean against that's before we go too far off track let's finish this one kick this let me go let me just you said the mark of the beast is symbolic I like like the mark of the Lamb I will go on record to say I do not believe that here's my position I've been teaching for 25 years Revelation 13 is gonna cause all to receive a mark in the right hand or in the forehead and you can't buy or sell without this mark here is wisdom six hundred threescore and six 666 when the barcode was developed in the early 70s the first two digits are unmarked to skinny lines you're involved in computers you guys do computer programming in the center there are two skinny lines which are unmarked doesn't give a number for them at the end there are two skinny lines it used to be and if you invite something from 1971 or 72 that had the mark they had a six six six under here because two skinny lines is the computer code for six however the numbers can be made two different ways the first set of numbers on the first before that six is for the product itself this is a can of coca-cola the second set of numbers is for that particular store to program their price in so they can play with these numbers this comes from the manufacturer I may have it backwards but one half is for the manufacturer so this my contention is this is to start the computer reading it and then to sell it to switch over so that now you can keep track of the inventory so the store knows to order another can of coke because somebody just bought one so half of it is inventory half is for the personal for the store okay now they've got this kind but here's the different ways to make the numbers it's all black and white lines zeros and ones Jonathan you've been doing this for what 30 years okay zeros and ones there it is the number six can be made two different ways three different ways a single line two skinny lines or another one the ones that are in this in this always start off with a six at the beginning six in the middle six at the end I predict there will be some kind of chip of some kind they will go complete electronic transactions you won't be able to buy or sell without a probably a computer chip in your hand or in your forehead I think that's what's coming they decided a friend of mine in Arkansas died recently but his company helped make these chips that's what they did is they built those chips they gave him a million dollars and said would you please find out what part of the human body changes temperature the most so we can put the chip with a battery in and the body will recharge the battery my temperature change well any mother could have told him where you check for a fever you're a pediatrician doctor where the forehead or the back of the hand oh honey you got a fever and they found out the right hand changes temperature more than the left hand because it's a little further from the heart so he said I would recommend if you're gonna put this chip in somebody and count on body temperature change to recharge it you should put it in the forehead or in the right hand that's what they said so I don't know I'm not gonna I shouldn't use the word predict I strongly suspect we're going to see a microchip that has to be implanted in your right hand or in your forehead and you will not be able to buy or sell without a computer chip of some kind that's what I suspect is coming rapidly okay wrong it's Deuteronomy six and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontlets all I'm saying is yeah that every Jew didn't go around with this some did I mean some tech Jews today they've got the band around the hand and they got the little rocks and there wasn't to buy or sell no okay what's your question let me get back to what this is all about so we keep going off into all these different directions the rapture position all five of those positions is dependent upon Daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27 supposedly the Antichrist is mentioned there there's no mention of an antichrist supposedly there's a gap between the 69th and 70th week there's no mention of a gap between the 69th and 70th week any time numbers are used in the Bible they are always concent consecutive Kent brings up a good point about going into captivity but we're told in Scripture that they're going to go into captivity for 40 years there's no such thing and in Daniel 9 supposedly the anti-crisis Capote is going to make a covenant with Israel I'm going to rebuild the temple and then break the Covenant none of those things are mentioned in Daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27 all these other things that you're talking about are important in a discussion about those things but the rapture top topic which all the positions are dependent upon is dependent upon 9 chap Daniel 9:24 through 27 my point is those things are not found in that passage no one is has no one here tonight then any of the books I've read on this and I've got and this is Kent's library I'm not gonna brag but I'll just tell you've got like 20,000 20,000 books and read the extensive library on eschatology have read almost everything on that particular topic no one IRET have read has been able to demonstrate they even admit they even admit that those things aren't in there they're getting them from other places I like to stick to the text of Scripture text of Scripture does not mention those items those all the other questions you're asking are interesting and important to discuss but that's not what this topic is about yes sir yes that's that's that's fair enough sure I'll take that okay so we're waiting no so the man of sin was already revealed yes because the man up there's again a great deal of speculation as to who the man of lawlessness of the man of sin it was but we're told when he was didn't read can you find it look at verse 6 was this I think it's verse 6 look at verse 6 what does it say maybe it's maybe seven you know what restrains him now it's actually says it has has come at hand is not correct that the day of the Lord has come I know what I know what the King James says right he says that's already happened I say it has not happened yet I second Thessalonians 2 I can get to this real quick here verse 5 dude do you not remember that while I was with you I was telling you these things and you know what restrains him now so that in his time he may be revealed for the mystery of lawlessness is already at work so when is it when it says here verse 6 you know what restrains him now so the man of lawlessness was being restrained then now you're saying not just you but no no this isn't going to happen to the distant future but this says the man this gives an indication that whoever the man of lawlessness was he was being restrained in Paul's day and but the man but the Antichrist is supposed to be a human being so you're telling me that he was restrained then so he's like 2000 and some years old he was restrained then he was the mystery of lawlessness was already at work but I here's here's why this this acute eyes it was Satan yes he's way more than 2,000 years old what Satan is Lucifer was created during the six days of creation and this is a lie be the Antichrist right the Antichrist is a human being and at Christ if the Antichrist this is the Antichrist then he was restrained in Paul's day then this this guy is somewhere in the world today in his 2,000 years old on all I'm trying to say here is I don't I could go through this I've got two chapters of the on the second Thessalonians in my book last days madness even have something here on the barcode by the way if you're interested whether we've gone ok way over time okay fine you can urgent questions we got to get answered before it's been almost two hours here okay well thank you for coming you don't have to haven't had the tour of our dinosaur real and yet him know you staying overnight know I'll give you the tour okay the real tour the real killer mule not not the three-day tour oh no three-hour tour how many have ever taken the real two or there oh yeah 26 degree weather thank you so much for getting I was gonna freezing here thank you for listening for everybody and if you'd like to get my book on the topic what a nurse about to happen you go to dr. 9 how do they get your book on the topic I'll go to American vision org last days madness wars and rumors of wars it's Jesus coming soon the gog and magog prophecy if you're interested the early church in the end of the world the day and the hour and my new book the rapture and the fig tree generation okay thanks alright well thank you for coming appreciate it we'll see you tomorrow if you're not a christian regardless of what happens in the future you better give your heart to the lord and get saved okay cuz you're gonna die and you're gonna be dead for a really long time really long time i want to plan a pack a lunch for that one okay so all right thanks for joining us see you tomorrow bye-bye
